THE ROGAINE EXPERIMENT (was Low Ferritin thread)

Hey there,


Well here's the new thread -- may it be good for something!

I haven't got time to go into massive detail about the story thus far -- instead all details of how I got to this stage can be found here:

http://www.keratin.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=386

And although very bad photo's, they are the only one's I did....they can be found here:

http://www.keratin.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=461

It should be noted that they're not terribly indicative, and since they were taken my hair did get a bit worse, thinner and shorter hairs around the front hairline and sides. Previously I had very very thick hair, and I still estimate my current loss to be about 40-50% of overall volume.
I may (for a laugh) also post the various circumferences of my ponytail that I've been recording over the last year....(another time however)


Brief catch up:

-- CTE for approximately two years (possible/uncertain AGA)
-- No obvious trigger (except perhaps moving from UK to Australia)
-- Treatments tried: Florisene for 9 months, raised Ferritin levels from 37 ug/L to approx 124 ug/L -- no obvious change in hair loss.
-- No medications or hormonal treatment taken, incl BCP's
-- 2 months of counting shed hairs; between 130-180 in 12 hour periods (see graph)
-- Blood tests 'normal'
-- Appointments with one General Practitioner, two dermatologists -- no scalp biopsy

Recommended treatment:

-- Rogaine 2% for at least six months.

Hoped-for outcome:

-- That AGA will not develop, that CTE follicles will be jerked back out of bad cycling behaviour and hair resumes normal growing patterns. Ideally, if no AGA develops, Rogaine could then be stopped once hair has returned to normal (in theory anyway).


First report:

Three and a half weeks into the Rogaine (minoxidil 2%) regime I have several observations -- though not very scientific.

-- Strangely, my hair does indeed feel thicker and more healthy, though this may be just a result of the Rogaine acting a little like a hair product (i.e. a little sticky) -- OR it could actually be a delayed result of raising my iron storage (Ferritin) levels. OR it could be a result of cutting my hair before starting the treatment, OR I'm willing to admit it 'may' be all in the mind. But it does feel better for whatever reason, seems generally a little thicker when tying up and shampooing.
-- I have noticed one-inch hairs in places they didn't seem to appear before. e.g. top, sides of head -- but no change in the thin hair above the ears, or along frontal hairline. Again, these hairs may have been there before, but unnoticed. Also it matters not that they are there, the important thing is that new-growth hairs stay in and eventually grow thicker. I've had short hairs growing and falling out for months, so will have to be convinced on this score.
-- Applying Rogaine twice a day is a royal pain in the bottom!! <ha ha> But I'm attempting to be rigorously regular, and alternate the method of applying from day to day to make sure I cover all the appropriate parts of my scalp. I am using it even on areas not known for success, i.e. the frontal hairline and above the ears. Mainly because this is where the hairloss is worse, so I figure it can't hurt to try.
-- My hair shedding has gone DOWN significantly in the last two weeks (see graph) -- which surprises me as I've been reading about, and expecting a larger than normal shed, which I had believed was indicative of it beginning to work. Such is the difference I noticed it before even counting, less in the shower coming out in my hands, less scattered around the house. Could be good thing -- will wait and see, and keep counting.
-- I'm also on the look-out for extra facial hair (groan) which unfortunately I'm a candidate for if the Rogaine kicks in in a systemic way as I already have a small amount which may be exacerbated by the minoxidil. Will keep you posted.

Other stuff:

I'm also going to try and do the following:

-- Take iron supplements around my period, to stop the slow loss of newly acquired iron stores.
-- I might occasionally do a 'pluck/pull' test, to try and get a rough percentage of telegon hairs. The plan would be to choose ten hairs at random and see how many come out without resistance. Over time, if my follicles are improving, this number should decrease.


Thats it for now!

Please feel free to comment etc -- especially with information about Rogaine experiences, or treatments/outcomes/similar stories, suggestions or anything else!

I will update this thread periodically, and keep it up and running (Kevin-willing of course!) for as long as I'm using Rogaine as the main treatment, or until my hair condition is improved, whichever comes first. And if my hair doesn't get better -- I'll probably want to air my thoughts about that too....so you're all stuck with me for now. Sorry!


Best of luck with follicles!


Joy
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Last edited by joy on Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:38 am; edited 7 times in total

results

Well, I for one, am very interested in what transpires with you. I have been following your story from here in the US. My story is not exactly like yours in that I am post menopausal and I don't think there are many in my age category looking for info here. It is kind of late for a major hair loss to start and one derm told me I am too old for AGA to start but it does have some similar characteristics-hair has gotten very fine and is beginning to thin-actually very quickly. I have tried about everything-but haven't really worked on my low ferritin level because there seems to be so much discussion here that it won't help. Anyway, I am taking spiro and no luck with it after about two months. I decided to add the Rogaine 2% about three weeks ago and I don't see improvement but....I was only putting it along the front of my hairline because that is the place that scares me the most. It has receded at least a half inch. Now, on your post I see that it is not usually successful there anyway so I guess it makes sense it is not working. Perhaps I will do as you are doing and use it the whole way. I would love for my hair to feel better. It feels like such wispy trash. But I believe you were speaking of a feeling of improved volume. Anyway it does sound positive. I think at this stage most of us are kind of skeptical so if you think it might be making improvement, it likely is. Good luck and do keep posting.

more improvement?

Hello Joy I keep returning to see how things are going with your Rogaine experiement. Let us know soon.

Hey there both of you -- thanks for your interest & support.

I'm still here -- and doing the 'thang' with the Rogaine, and am counting once a week, so thought it would be logical to repost once a fortnight (roughly). Next count is on monday, so I promise I'll be back on tuesday with the latest gossip -- updated graph etc. It's a slow journey...week by week, but I'm still not going anywhere until it's 'resolved' somehow!



To 'guest' -- with regards to the Rogaine and the hairline, this is just broad info I've picked up mainly from reading posts here at Keratin.com. Perhaps I should've phrased my comments differently.
I'm unsure of the exact science of minoxidils viability on different areas of the scalp (Kevin's probably got research papers cited here somewhere) except that I read somewhere that the FDA in the US, had only done tests with Rogaine on the crown area, and therefore insisted that the company making Rogaine only market it for that area in particular. I think general feeling is that it certainly can't hurt to put it on other areas of your head, and may likely do some good there too -- so it's not all hopeless for the hairline I don't believe. I'm using it on my hairline, as thats where my problem manifests itself most visibly.

Until soon,
Best to follicles,

J
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rogaine ex.

Okay-thanks for dropping in. Your plan makes sense-I was afraid you'd run off with your good hair and left us in the lerch-sp? LOL

Ah, I wish.



J
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6 August Update

Hello Peeps

Hair Report 6 August.
Rogaine 2% usage since 1 July (e.g. 5 weeks)

GRAPH: Note there is a new graph posted in the original posting (I will always update it here) showing the Rogaine counts only. NB: The first two Rogaine counts are repeated at the beginning of the new graph. I've had to do a new graph because there is a maximum pixel width on images posted, however, I've put a red line in at 100 hairs to make the two graphs easier to compare.

NOTES:

Nothing too much to report this week.

-- Hair shedding has gone up slightly (78 to 95) but I still consider this to be low compared to a couple of months ago. I think my mental cutoff point is around 100 hairs. I suspect that 5 years ago, with a normal head of hair, a 12-hour shed count would have been around 50 or so, so I'm on the 'right' side of 'normal' I believe.
The increase could be the sole extent of my 'dread shed', caused by the Rogaine. OR it could be hormonal, as my period was a bit late and heavy this month. Time and further counts will be able to tell if it's a hormonal or a Rogaine pattern I hope.

-- I've been looking out for symptoms of Rogaine use, but haven't really noticed anything substantial or worrying. I think there may be a small increase in the blonde (vellus) hair around my jawline, there seems to be a slight fuzziness that wasn't there before, but it's not anything that anyone else could possibly see, so I'm not concerned about it yet. Will keep my eye on other likely places (upper lip etc) to see if any vellus hairs decide to go 'terminal' on me.

-- Hair is still feeling thicker, which has been a minor boost for the self-esteem. Still can't explain this entirely, but I'm not complaining!

-- Short hairs/regrowth: There is definately new growth in places I didn't have it before the Rogaine. For example, about 2-3 inches above my ears. Some of them are very short and very fine (e.g. half an inch) -- others are between 2-3 inches, indicating they must've been there before the Rogaine. (This does make me wonder a little if somehow my hair was starting to turn around before the Rogaine....hmmm....)
But, I've got a long wait ahead of me, as I still LOSE a lot of short hair in the counts (see graphs) and whilst new one's are great, they still need to STAY IN, thicken up, and grow much longer in order to be a really positive development.

-- Front hairline: I'm a bit nervous about applying Rogaine right at the very very front, so am putting it about half an inch back from where the hair stops. I haven't noticed too much difference as yet to this bit of my head. Hairs are still fine, wispy, and quite short.

-- Application: It occurs to me that I'm not putting the Rogaine around the very back of my head and the hair line that runs from ear, to nape, to ear, at the back. Mainly it's because I can't see what I'm doing. Secondly, 1ml of Rogaine spreads nicely over everything else but wouldn't stretch down to there. I've been thinking whether or not I should be doing this bit too, but at the moment I've decided NOT to. Reason is mainly because the hairloss is not so bad at the back, in fact, its probably my best hair.
I figure if I can sort the top, front and sides out, then that will be more than enough -- it's difficult to even tell if I have the same bad cycling going on at the back or not.


SO! Nothing too dramatic, either way. Yet to be persuaded that any effects are permanent, or doing permanent good -- but again, hopefully time will tell.

I haven't done a 'pluck' test yet, nor sorted out my posting on ponytail sizes. I'll try and do both of these before the next graph update. They won't be very scientific, but just for the sake of adding as much info as possible.


Until soon,
Best to all follicles,

J
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Hi there Joy,
interesting and positive developments there for you. I'm super-pleased that for whatever 'reason', your shedding is slowing down a bit, must be such a relief and hopefully not a temporary one.

I have no idea about Rogaine but you must have heard from others when the 'shed' from it usually starts? Is it shortly after starting to use it or 3 months later as with other 'triggers'?

Good that you're noticing regrowth. As funny as it looks (I've been sporting the hedgehog look for a long time now) it's very reassuring I think to see the little hairs.

My hair is a bit up and down, slave to the pregnancy hormones I guess and shedding has increased over the last 4-6 weeks but everynow and then it shows signs of slowing down again. After not counting for 3 months I've started counting lost hairs every wash day again which gives me something to do.

Thanks so much for keeping this 'diary' of the Rogaine experiment, it's really interesting and informative and I keep checking in especially to see how it's going. For all those thinking about or already using Rogaine (or any other topical treatment) it must also be helpful to have someone to compare with.

Anyways, best of luck for the next 2 weeks and may the count continue to stay low (under 100)!

>>Hi there Joy,
interesting and positive developments there for you. I'm super-pleased that for whatever 'reason', your shedding is slowing down a bit, must be such a relief and hopefully not a temporary one.

HEY Jessica,
Nice to hear from you again.

Yes, just between you, me and the lampost, I'm reasonably pleased, and find myself obsessing a fair amount less, which must be a positive outcome in its own right

>>I have no idea about Rogaine but you must have heard from others when the 'shed' from it usually starts? Is it shortly after starting to use it or 3 months later as with other 'triggers'?

From what I've read in lots of places, and direct from Prof Kossard, if there is a 'dread shed' it usually occurs within the first 2-3 months, then abates. However, lately I've come across lots of posts where people didn't shed massively at all at the beginning, and yet still think Rogaine is doing the 'thing' for them (mainly men, as there's more posts from them generally).

>>Good that you're noticing regrowth. As funny as it looks (I've been sporting the hedgehog look for a long time now) it's very reassuring I think to see the little hairs.

Indeedy! Especially attactrive when you slick it all back, nice and neat, then forget...put a hat on...which fluffs up just the little bits everywhere -- the 'halo' effect I like to call it. Ha ha.

>My hair is a bit up and down, slave to the pregnancy hormones I guess and shedding has increased over the last 4-6 weeks but everynow and then it shows signs of slowing down again. After not counting for 3 months I've started counting lost hairs every wash day again which gives me something to do.

Welcome back to the counting club! Mad thing to do still -- but gotta be worth it somehow, if only for the peace of mind that you know you're doing everything you can to monitor yourself. Good luck with the rest of your pregancy too of course.

>>Thanks so much for keeping this 'diary' of the Rogaine experiment, it's really interesting and informative and I keep checking in especially to see how it's going. For all those thinking about or already using Rogaine (or any other topical treatment) it must also be helpful to have someone to compare with.

Thanks for appreciating it. I don't expect much discussion in the thread really -- from an outsider point of view it's all rather boring I guess, and so slooow! But it's nice to have people pop in and add too...gives me something read too!

>>Anyways, best of luck for the next 2 weeks and may the count continue to stay low (under 100)!

Thank you. You too! Come and visit again!

J
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rogaine ex.

Hi Joy, thanks for the update. I, too, am seeing little hairs, in the above the temple area. I think many of them are too weak to amount to much but they are dark. I see them falling out some. It is with some hope that I continue. Good luck to you.